Kelsay Myers
Expressive Arts Practitioner and Somatic Movement Educator
Kelsay Myers is a published author, expressive arts practitioner and somatic movement educator living in Marin County, CA who works along the edges of the mythic self, trauma resolution and compassionate change. She offers cutting edge personal empowerment programs and online courses for spiritual soul transformation, authentic self-expression, embodiment and personal growth for inner healing and wholeness. Her work is for bold hearts on the road to transformation, embodiment and self-expression.
Connect with Kelsay...
Website: www.dialogicalpersona.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebowlerhat
Full Transcript - Episode 12
TW: suicidal ideation
Chantelle: Have a listen while today's guest Kelsay, a 6/3 shares her story while you read between the lines.
Kelsay, thank you for joining me today. Very excited to get to chat with you. From the moment that I came across you on Instagram, I thought to myself, oh, we would have a lot to talk about.
Kelsay: Thank you so much for inviting me to be on. I'm honored to be a guest on your podcast.
Chantelle: We're going to dive right in- this profile truly fascinates me being a 6/3 because as a 1/3 myself I have that 3 energy, I know what that 3 energy is like, but then I also know that for 6/3s in particular the first phase of life, re: going on the roof is another experiencing of three.
And so that double three, I am just fascinated to hear about. I almost can't imagine a doubling of my three line energy. So [00:02:00] I am wondering, what was that double three like in practical terms for you?
Kelsay: Yeah, the three line comes through very strongly. I've noticed it a lot in my life, just in my approach to learning and doing things.
Even though I'm a projector, I'm very action oriented because I learn by experimenting by doing by figuring it out on my feet or like in the midst of things which I actually I think has served me very well in learning and growing and especially in being an artist and a writer and a creative person, just the willingness to jump in and figure it out and not worry so much about the outcome, but just the process of things.
Chantelle: I resonate with that. The process is as much or even more important to me sometimes than the final product. Do you find yourself being almost mystified by people who don't have that three line and who [00:03:00] experience things in other ways like having to learn first or integrate first before trying things?
Kelsay: I do. And people who really have a lot of questions before they're willing to go out and try something- I've found I've had to learn to have patience with that. Because it's so opposite to how I am. In the mental health field, I've had to learn compassion and that not everyone's like me because I did actually assume that most people were like me until I learned otherwise.
Chantelle: Well, that's fair. Can you identify a moment when you truly leaned into the mentor element of your six line?
Kelsay: From the time I was a kid in my classes, people looked up to me as a leader and would follow me around. I was sort of a trendsetter in school. I was used to, well, one hanging out with older people.
I hung out a lot with my teachers growing up and my parents and their friends. So I, I [00:04:00] was listened to a lot. People valued my opinion. They always asked me for advice. And I think, you know, that's part of the projector thing too, is that people really saw me. So I actually, I had a very easeful childhood since my parents didn't know about human design, but they really allowed me to be myself and to learn and figure things out and try things and quit things as I liked.
So I had the gift of really being able to be myself. You know, as a child, and then it was really in college, when I went off on my own that I started experiencing more of the bumps and the breaking of bonds and the reforming of bonds and really struggling a lot with some of that, that learning and that growth and experiencing some depression and suicidal thoughts and tendencies.
And. Even in those moments, I found other people who were depressed and they looked up to me as sort of the [00:05:00] leader or the space holder. And so I think in that way, people did see me as a role model or someone at least that they could look up to and learn from, from a very early age and throughout my life in different stages.
Chantelle: The struggles becoming the strengths and even simultaneously, that happening.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tell me about your deconditioning journey. You've been actively deconditioning for about six years. That really stood out to me because that's the exact length of time that I've been aware of human design as well.
Kelsay: Yeah, I first learned about human design from my former therapist. She is not a reader, but she's also been studying it for years and a Projector. She's a splenic Projector like me, in fact, so.
She did a deep dive into it and was able to to teach me a little bit about it and knew a little bit about my body graph so could kind of explain it to me and and guide me in the process of [00:06:00] learning about it. So I did it in conjunction with somatic experiencing with conscious dance with therapy and different coaches too.
I was very immersed in my own healing for these past six years, so it's been a process and human design, I felt it just gave me permission to be more of myself.
As I mentioned, I was allowed to be myself as a child, but then when I started dating and getting into more romantic entanglements in my late 20s and early 30s, around my first Saturn return, I really lost myself and was trying to fit into what other people wanted and was entering into things very incorrectly.
So the human design piece brought me back to myself and a new understanding of myself at a much deeper level. So I did dive head in.[00:07:00]
Chantelle: That's fascinating that you combined it with all of those other modalities. Was there any one in particular that you found really complemented well with human design?
Kelsay: I think all of them really complemented it, but really working at the embodiment level, that was where the medicine was for me because I have been so conditioned to be in my head and my trauma also kind of made me turn more to intellectualization rather than emotions, so reconnecting with my heart reconnecting for the first time with my body I didn't realize how disembodied I had been and how much I relied on my mind until I started the deconditioning process and combining that with really trauma informed ways of being in my body. Reforming those connections that had been lost I think really brought my healing to a deeper level.
It was more holistic too.
Chantelle: Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And was it around this time that you started [00:08:00] doing some of this work yourself, becoming an entrepreneur, or was that already a part of your life before?
Kelsay: Yeah, I did my first coaching training and expressive arts training at the same time in 2019.
I had been in a movement medicine workshop called Presence of Heart, because I was really focused on cultivating more empathy, compassion and emotional intelligence in myself and not being so much of a thinking personality. I was in this workshop and they asked us on the third day of it to write down and draw what we were committed to, and it just occurred to me that I really wanted to commit to being present in my life and in the world in a way that I hadn't.
As a Korean adoptee, I felt kind of just untethered to the world and really as I mentioned, I had some suicidal ideation that was more just this vague idea.
Longing to not [00:09:00] exist rather than a plan to do anything and part of that was because I didn't feel like I was rooted, that I had any roots or any real ties to the material world.
And in that workshop, I just felt like, yeah, I want to commit to being here and to being in this world in a way that I hadn't before.
And about a month later, I was that I needed to finish my PhD before doing any sort of practitioner trainings and that it would just be more in my 40s, maybe that I would do that.
And, after I committed to being here, it was like, no, I'm going to do it right now. And so about three months later, I was in two different trainings. About a year into those trainings, I started my business to give myself a space to work with clients and practice all the tools and get the hours that I needed for the certifications.
Chantelle: Right. And can you explain for those who don't know -and I'm one of those who don't know- what an expressive arts practitioner is and what that's all about?[00:10:00]
Kelsay: Yeah, so the kind of expressive arts that I do is very multimodal. It's somatic based and we use coaching inquiries and questions to explore the psychological material and then develop it through drawing, through self reflective or creative writing, through dance or just intuitive movement, shapes and gestures that capture the material to work through.
And then. At the end I have my clients create a performance ritual with their art, with their writings, with anything that they want to honor that experience to mark that crossing in a way that can be witnessed and reflected back to them.
Chantelle: Oh, that sounds like a beautiful unfolding.
Kelsay: Yes, it is. I mean, I went through it myself and it was very integrating and healing and so powerful. And I love being able to also witness other people's processes. It really [00:11:00] shows how people, even if we have similar archetypes, similar themes in our lives, that everyone is different and it shows up in such unique ways for everyone.
And that's also what I love about human design is that it honors that no one is really the same. Everyone is an individual.
Chantelle: Absolutely. And do you use human design in your work with your clients as well?
Kelsay: I do. Since I'm not trained as a reader, I just I have them do a free body graph and explain basic concepts and then recommend that they do a reading if they want to explore it deeper.
Many of my clients find it -just like I did- very confirming of who they are and really giving them permission to be themselves more in their work and in their lives. So they find it very refreshing.
Chantelle: Right. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever spoken with anyone who when introduced to their chart didn't have at least a few aspects of self discoveries that felt like very much a homecoming.[00:12:00]
Kelsay: Yes, yes. So yeah, and I don't do it with all clients, but the ones who I know would be open to it and who would benefit from it. I always introduce it.
Chantelle: Yeah. So, fulfilling your line six role model energy in your coaching and in your educating must be really big for you.
How is that in terms of feeling rewarding and yet also preserving your energy?
How do you work around that?
Kelsay: Yeah, so I think this is part of the six line, but it's really important to me that I embody and live out anything that I'm offering or teaching and working with, with my clients. Part of that is I am very actively doing my own process and still immersed in my own expressive arts practices and the arts.
Using my own resources and continuing to expand and grow in my own capacity while still working with clients. And so I [00:13:00] keep that active and I always give myself space and time in a week to do my own creative process and to do my own healing process and to hold space for myself. Because yes, as a projector, I can't just go, go, go, go.
Chantelle: Yes, that will very quickly lead to burnout, for a projector. We don't want that.
Kelsay: No, and I always try to structure my days where I have time between different things to eat or rest or do something that isn't work-related in between things.
It doesn't always work that way, but I would say 95 percent of the time I can do that, which is one thing I love about being an entrepreneur is that I can, I have that freedom to set my schedule and to set my own pacing.
Chantelle: Right, find those moments to nourish throughout the day. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's always really interested in hearing about daily routines and daily practices. [00:14:00] Is there anything that you find that you come back to in that ritualistic way that you find more helpful for you?
Kelsay: Well, I'm a Happy Planner.
So I do lots of intense sticker collaging, but it's also setting my schedule and reaffirming my schedule. I do keep everything in iCal as well, but having that physical planner in an artistic format just really helps me to create, to have fun, to relax and to know what's happening, you know, each week and each month.
Chantelle: Okay. I haven't heard of Happy Planner but I'm intrigued as a former scrapbooker . Is it similar to the bullet journal kind of concept?
Kelsay: It is. It has a monthly calendar and then weekly pages with daily slots and then I mean like, I have probably 50 different sticker books of 20 pages of stickers and then I just play with those and I [00:15:00] collect stickers from different places.
So it just kind of, I thematically organize and sticker what I'm doing that day, like if it's seeing a client there's like workbook stickers and you know, food stickers and different things so that you can actually just collage out with stickers what you're actually doing.
Chantelle: Oh. I'm definitely going to look into this once we get off this call.
I might become a happy planner myself.
Kelsay: But yes, as a former scrapbooker, it does, it feels very similar to that.
Chantelle: Yeah, even the word collage really resonated for me just now. That's definitely not a word that I associate with my calendar. But I like the possibilities that that offers.
Kelsay: Yes, and I actually, I do a lot of collage with my clients because I work with people who aren't necessarily artists and who can feel very self conscious about [00:16:00] drawing.
Even though it's not about the quality, it's really about the authentic expression. People, you know, can be very self conscious about that, especially when they're beginning. So collage is one way that everyone pretty much feels comfortable expressing themselves creatively and artistically.
Chantelle: Definitely. It's like an entry level into that awareness. There's also something about finding things out in the world, out in the wild that remind you of something internal, right? Like finding that outward expression of something, I think. That's what resonates for me when I think of collage.
Kelsay: Definitely, there's something about seeing something that resonates with you, kind of collecting it and then putting it in a new arrangement that's, that's specific to what the person is trying to express about themselves that is really powerful.
Chantelle: Right. That brings up an off topic question but I'm gonna ask it anyways. I'm not a human design expert by any means - I study my own chart and I study clients charts, [00:17:00] but not for the purposes of readings, it's more just to inform our communication styles and, you know, where my guidance is leading but in terms of specific and non specific manifesting, like the arrow direction, do you find that clients collage in different ways or they gather in different ways, whether they're specific or non specific manifestors?
Kelsay: That's a good question. You know, I hadn't actually done a study about that, but that would be something to look at. I bet it does inform that. I'm a nonspecific kind of manifestor. So, so in business, that whole, like, what's your ideal client has always just driven me crazy.
Cause I'm like, I don't need to write that.
Chantelle: You're just calling it in.
Kelsay: And my collages also tend to be a little more around a theme, but they go kind of all over the place, whereas, one of my best friends, [00:18:00] actually who I do a online writing course with called The Magic of Embodied Metaphor.
She also loves collage and I'm pretty sure she's a specific Manifestor and her collages are very different than mine.
Chantelle: Oh, interesting. I'm always so fascinated about, like, I'd love to see characters in movies or books that know some element of their design, just see how that shows up across people's lives.
And that's really why I decided to start this show, because we see so much about Type out there and even on Environment. But I find Profile, the element of our chart that's about our role and that character that we're playing in life, how we're showing up in that role is just an interesting lens to view things through.
Is there anything else that feels it's like very 6/3 of you, either in life or in business that we haven't talked about yet?
Kelsay: Yeah. For [00:19:00] me, I think, I don't know if this is more of an adoptee or just growing up in our postmodern contemporary world, but I've always felt very fragmented.
And probably also because I have a history with dissociation, but I've always felt very fragmented and drawn to the image of the kaleidoscope, like different colors in pieces. Or like the mosaic that you reconstruct into something that's authentically you. And I actually, I bring that approach to my business too, where it is about deconstructing, reconstructing, and really finding those different pieces and layers of who we are and allowing them all to have a voice and allowing ourselves to get to know them and embody them and bring them to life through creative play and living.
I see that as, as also related to my 6/3 profile.
Chantelle: Mm hmm. And it reminds me too, I'm probably not going to get this right. And all the therapists listening will, will come after [00:20:00] me, but it reminds me of parts work. Right. Like all parts are welcome here. That sort of careful slotting together of all things that make us us.
It's a beautiful life theme to carry throughout both your personal story and then your work with clients too I'm really intrigued by the work you do with coaching and you mentioned you're an author. Can you share about what it is that is exciting for you in your work right now
Kelsay: Yes. Well, I'm part of a multi-author book coming out December 12th. That's a coffee table book. We have a couple images on a page in the book and you can flip through it. On one side it's I love you because and on the opposite side it's I love me because and then each page has a QR code to two minute videos that we all created that are the longer expression of why we love ourselves and why we love whoever we chose as the person to express the I love you because.
And then [00:21:00] next year in September there's actually going to be an art show in Philadelphia where we get to showcase our art and perform and do something live in a group and I'm really excited about this because it uses So many different art modalities and ways of expressing ourselves.
And that's what gets me excited about creating right now. It's not just words on the page. It's you know, videos and art and being in space with each other.
Chantelle: Yeah, even that's a kaleidoscope, that multidisciplinary approach to art. I can see that through line.
Kelsay: Exactly.
Chantelle: Congratulations on the book coming out.
That's fantastic. And yeah, who doesn't love a good coffee table book? I just love leafing through those.
And how about your coaching work? What does all of that look like right now?
Kelsay: Yes, I have a few longer term coaching programs that really explore the [00:22:00] process that I've mentioned of really exploring different parts of our bodies specifically and then putting them together and having a ritual experience about the process and the journey that each client goes on.
And then I also have just individual coaching sessions that use expressive arts and explore different topics loosely. So, you know, if people want just short term individual sessions, I offer those, and then longer term, like three to six month programs, or even longer if people, if people need that.
I've had a couple clients I've seen for Two plus years now. Mm hmm. So it's really I I want to offer people what they need and and meet them where they're at and help them just explore that from from wherever they are and in in whatever ways they need.
Chantelle: That's spoken like a true experimental mentor.
It's very 6/3 of you when you think about it that way. You have that flexibility and that willingness to [00:23:00] change and not just having one, rigid container for an offer, but having that be very mutable. I find I'm attracted to that as well with my 3 line, offering different options and having that available. It's interesting to hear from another three line who has that free flowing format that works for them.
Kelsay: Definitely, you know, in business schools and in marketing programs, they say, just work on your one offer.
That's right. You know, and do that and repeat that until it's, really successful and then add something else.
Chantelle: And that's like That minimum viable whatever.
Kelsay: Yeah. Exactly. I totally see how that is very marketable and it's just not me. I could never ever work that way.
If you're very rigid, I think that works for some people, but not necessarily the people I'm interested in working with, because I don't necessarily, I mean, I'm not a rigid person and I don't get along [00:24:00] with people who are very rigid and narrow in their approach to things. And I don't think it ultimately serves because it just looks at things from one way and I'm very much a let's look at it from as many angles as we can see and be conscious of.
Chantelle: I never thought about it that way, but that might be a three line element that I have as well. My publication was called Facet. And so it's like the kaleidoscope element: each side of the crystal is important to the whole, and we can't have that whole beautiful thing without it being the sum of all of its parts.
And so if we choose to never look at some of those aspects of our business, then we're missing out. Each side of it contributes to the brilliance of the entire crystal is the metaphor that I go with there. But that probably is kind of a three line thing. I just never thought to phrase it that way.
Kelsay: I think it is. Yeah,
Chantelle: You mentioned earlier on when we were chatting about the three line aspect of like quitting things that [00:25:00] aren't serving anymore... Is there anything in business specifically in the last year or so that has been a thing that you've quit -that you've decided to let go of, that feels aligned?
Kelsay: Yes. So one thing- I think this goes with the three line and also the Projector...
We get all that advice that you have to be consistent and show up on social media regularly. And I get why, with the algorithms and everything. It just, it doesn't work.
I had so much burnout. I actually took three months off from my business the past few months.
Cause I was like, I just can't do it. It's too much pressure and it's just not me. And also I do a lot of other personality theories too, cause I just want to know as much as I can about myself and other people and my, my lowest Clifton strength.
So it's not a strength. The 34th one is consistency. So it's just not for me. In the past month, I've just realized that I have to let that go and use my own [00:26:00] strengths to compensate for not having that and really never trying to do that again.
Chantelle: That's absolutely fair. Thank you for sharing. I'd like us to flow now into the closing ritual for this show, which is the pulling of a card. These affirmation cards are created by Glow Glow Juice HD and she actually puts together an entire deck based on the elements of everyone's unique chart.
The cards that I'm holding today are the 6/3 cards, so they relate directly to your profile. And what we'll do is I'll shuffle the cards around while we take one deep breath in and out together. And then I'll select one card to share with you. Are you ready? Sure! Let's take a deep breath in,
and release.
The card I've pulled is, "I am here to experience life, to find my truth, then [00:27:00] to embody it. Do I trust that I will bloom exactly when I am meant to?"
Kelsay: I love that. Yes, I feel like that, in a nutshell, has been my process. And I even use the metaphor of blooming or blossoming a lot in my business.
Chantelle: Oh, fascinating.
What beautiful alignment. Kelsay, I know that people will want to see all of your work and definitely check out that coffee table book. How can people find you?
Kelsay: You can find me at dialogicalpersona.com, and I'm also on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook @dialogicalpersona too.
Chantelle: Actually, one last question. Can you explain what does dialogical persona mean and what does it mean to you?
Kelsay: Yes, so I based Dialogical Persona off of the idea of playing with different facets of ourselves [00:28:00] and in dialogue with each other, sometimes in monologues, but just when we know these different characters and archetypes and roles that we have in the world
within us and enact them and dialogue with them and have them express themselves with each other. It helps to integrate and to heal or to release whichever needs to happen. And that's the foundation of the work that I do in my business.
Chantelle: I'm really glad I asked. That's a beautiful concept.
